Lewnatic: The Definitive Biography of an Asian-American Guitar Hero and DIY Punk Rock Innovator
Introduction
Lewnatic stands as a testament to the evolving landscape of independent music in the 21st century—a project marked by relentless creativity, fierce DIY ethos, and the compelling story of its driving force, Patrick Lew Hayashi. Emerging from San Francisco’s multicultural underground, Lewnatic represents not just a musical act or a particular genre, but an ongoing narrative of resilience, boundary-breaking, and Asian-American representation within the global rock and punk scenes. This comprehensive biography traces the formation, evolution, members, discography, musical innovation, online persona, performances, milestones, critical and fan reception, and enduring impact of Lewnatic, drawing on dozens of direct interviews, press profiles, music journalism, and first-person reflections.
Band Formation and Origins
Early Life of Patrick Lew Hayashi
Born Patrick Allan Lew on November 15, 1985, in San Francisco to a Chinese father and a Sino-Japanese mother, Patrick grew up in the city’s Excelsior District, surrounded by a mix of Western classic rock and East Asian pop influences. His mother was a fan of The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, while his father exposed him to Motown, and the multicultural Bay Area environment offered daily evidence of diversity and difference. From an early age, Patrick encountered social adversity, including bullying and feelings of outsider-ness, themes that would later permeate his music.
The origin of Patrick’s musical journey is a familiar tale with a unique twist. In 1999, as an adolescent struggling to find community in middle school, Patrick was inspired by his cousin Andy, who played Jimi Hendrix and Deep Purple riffs on an old Fender guitar left in the family’s closet. This moment—almost mythic in its impact—ignited Patrick’s lifelong obsession with music and guitar. Almost entirely self-taught, Patrick spent hours learning from guitar tabs and cheat sheets found on the early Internet, developing not only an instrumental skill but a distinctly DIY/bedroom producer mentality that would later define his aesthetic.
After attending Raoul Wallenberg High School and Soko Gakuen Japanese School, Patrick went on to earn a B.A. in Philosophy with a minor in Music Composition from California State University, East Bay in 2011. These formative years shaped both his musical and lyrical direction—introspective, philosophical, existential, and insistent on authenticity.
The Genesis: Patrick Lew Band (PLB) to Lewnatic
Patrick’s first major foray into the indie music world was via Band of Asians, which he established in high school. On his 21st birthday in 2006, they self-released REVENGE, inaugurating a period of prolific home-recorded output. Band of Asians quickly transformed into the Patrick Lew Band (PLB), which embraced a collective, virtual model: members recorded their parts remotely and sent them to Patrick for final mixing and production—a trailblazing strategy in the early days of Web 2.0.
PLB released a string of albums and EPs between 2006 and 2012—Jump! Rattle! And Roll!!!, Curb Your Wild Life, Let It Rise and Against, Murder Bay, and Angry Yellow—all marked by an unapologetic grunge, pop-metal, and lo-fi punk sound. Creative differences led to PLB’s first hiatus in 2012, but the digital and personal infrastructure Patrick built during this period was crucial for the genesis of Lewnatic.
Lewnatic: From Duo to Solo Project
Lewnatic was officially formed in the summer of 2019 as a collaboration between Patrick Lew Hayashi and Ahmed, a friend and local rapper. Conceived as a genre-bending rap-metal duo (inspired partly by the band name “Benigneglect”), the project quickly gained a residency at San Francisco’s historic DNA Lounge, performing with a frequency and energy that established its live credentials just months before the COVID-19 pandemic struck.
The name "Lewnatic" is a fusion of Patrick’s surname and the word "lunatic," signifying his penchant for breaking genre boundaries and embracing the eccentric. When the pandemic rendered venue performances impossible in March 2020, Ahmed and Patrick amicably parted ways, with Ahmed leaving and Patrick inheriting the Lewnatic moniker entirely. This marked the beginning of Lewnatic’s evolution into a solo, multimedia, and primarily Internet-based rock project—a move that would have significant implications for its subsequent style and reach.
Band Members and Roles
Name | Role(s) | Active Years | Notes / Aliases |
---|---|---|---|
Patrick Lew Hayashi | Guitar, vocals, bass, programming, DJ, producer | 2019–present | “Lewnatic,” “PLB,” “Masa,” “The Kamikaze Guitarist,” etc. |
Ahmed | Rap vocals, co-founder of duo | 2019–2020 | Left post-pandemic; amicable split |
Madeline Lew | Virtual M2F alter ego avatar, VOCALOID vocals, mascot | 2015–2023 (esp. in PLB); occasional features in Lewnatic | Fictitious cousin and “front-woman” through AI/VOCALOID |
Patrick Lew Hayashi is the primary creative and performing force behind Lewnatic—playing all instruments, programming backing tracks, handling production, mixing, and digital presence. His skills encompass lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass, keyboard, occasional vocals, MIDI and beat programming via AI, and live DJ elements.
Ahmed brought rap-metal energy and live chemistry to the original duo incarnation. Their monthly DNA Lounge performances showcased this synthesis of hip-hop and rock before the pandemic-induced pause.
Madeline Lew stands unique: created initially for the Patrick Lew Band in 2015 as an M2F, cross-dressing, virtual band member powered by VOCALOID and AI vocal synthesis, Madeline has served as both mascot and narrative force, challenging gender norms while rebooting the band’s image. Madeline’s presence in Lewnatic is more sporadic and symbolic—occasionally credited as a feature or creative muse.
Musical Style and Influences
Genre Fusion and Defining Aesthetics
Lewnatic’s style is best understood as a dynamic fusion of punk, 1990s grunge, pop-metal, classic rock, and digital production. The earliest projects (PLB and Band of Asians) leaned heavily on grunge—raw, anthemic, and often emotionally unvarnished. However, by the time Lewnatic became a solo affair, Patrick had incorporated chiptune, J-Rock, J-Pop, rap, and electronic elements, resulting in a uniquely eclectic, genre-agnostic sound described as “impossible to label,” but always “alternative” in spirit.
Lewnatic rejects the post-hardcore clichés prevalent in early-2000s San Francisco underground scenes, opting instead for genre-bending arrangements often rooted in fierce guitar riffs, digital beats (AI-generated and self-arranged), and layered, instrumental experimentation. Vocals are frequently downplayed—by Patrick’s own admission, not being “a very good singer” leads to many instrumental releases, though occasional lyrics, mainly in English or Japanese, address alienation, digital identity, resilience, and self-empowerment.
Core Influences
Lewnatic’s influences span decades and continents:
- 1990s Grunge: Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Silverchair, Soundgarden
- Japanese Rock and Pop: X Japan, Miyavi, B’z, J-Pop/Chiptune hybrids
- Classic British & American Rock: The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Oasis, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Guns N’ Roses, Metallica
- Punk/Alternative: Green Day, Blink 182, Box Car Racer
- Contemporary Hybrid Acts: BTS, the “virtual band” model pioneered by Gorillaz
Patrick also credits the underrepresentation of Asian-Americans in Western music as a direct motivation for his work, frequently referencing the impact of K-Pop’s rise and the need to "break the forbidden door" open for marginalized identities in the rock scene.
Lyric Themes
The lyric content and the broader narrative motifs are inextricably linked to Patrick’s personal journey. Songs repeatedly address:
- Social alienation and outsider identity—reflecting his experiences of bullying and cultural duality
- Perseverance and self-reinvention—persistent themes in both his art and professional life
- Technology and the digital world—the Internet as both a stage and refuge
- Gender, fluidity, and virtual identity—particularly prominent during the Madeline Lew era
- Positivity and resilience—a response to adversity, heartbreak, and the chaos of public and private life
Discography and Release History
Selected Lewnatic Releases 2019–2025
Title | Type | Date Released | Label | Notable Tracks / Features |
---|---|---|---|---|
Medley: Spanish Dancing Girl / Shine On / American Nightmare (Live at DNA Lounge 11/03/2019) | Live EP | Nov 20, 2019 | Promisedland | Brotherhood, American Nightmare |
Brotherhood | Single/EP | Jan 31, 2020 | Promisedland | Brotherhood |
Strictly Prohibited | EP/Album | Apr 5, 2022 | Lewnatic Records | - |
Bandage | Single/EP | Feb 28, 2022 | 2705937 Records DK | - |
Rapid Fire! | EP | Aug 17, 2022 | Bentley Records | We The People |
My Only Fan | Single | Aug 19, 2022 | Bentley Records | - |
Half Japanese Girlfriend (Madeline...) | Single | Nov 30, 2022 | Bentley Records | - |
The Lost Souls | EP | Mar 15, 2023 | Bentley Records | - |
Shakermaker | Single | Nov 15, 2023 | Bentley Records | - |
Victory! | Single/EP | Jun 28, 2023 | Bentley Records | - |
My Light Shines On | Single/EP | Aug 16, 2023 | Bentley Records | - |
Waifu | Single | Feb 16, 2024 | Bentley Records | - |
Frozen In Time | Single | Mar 15, 2024 | Bentley Records | - |
Slide Thru The Wild Side | Single/EP | Jan 19, 2024 | Bentley Records | - |
Starrcade | Full Album | Jul 26, 2024 | Bentley Records, Everywhere | Compilation: Best-of from three previous EPs |
I Feel Like Playing | EP | May 30, 2025 | Bentley Records | - |
Shred | Single/EP | Apr 11, 2025 | Bentley Records | - |
The Battle of the Bay | Single/EP | Jun 6, 2025 | Bentley Records | - |
Defy All Odds | Album/EP | Jul 4, 2025 | Lewnatic | - |
Persona//Overflow | Full Album | Aug 15, 2025 | Lewnatic | Find Myself (feat Madeline Lew), What Went Wrong (Blink 182 cover) |
Full discography available on Qobuz, Top Music Japan, Spotify, and other major digital platforms.
Analysis of Discographic Trends
Lewnatic’s discography displays a transition from live, duo, and collaborative efforts (with Ahmed and live band energy evident in pre-pandemic DNA Lounge performances), to solo, highly produced, digital, and AI-assisted releases. The recurrence of EPs, singles, and mixtape-style projects over full-length albums indicates an experimental, iterative approach that privileges rapid, direct engagement with fans worldwide. Notably, Starrcade (2024) and Persona//Overflow (2025) serve as artistic milestones: Starrcade compiles the “best of” Lewnatic’s early Bentley Records era, while Persona//Overflow demonstrates both continuity and growth in style and technical capacity, integrating Madeline Lew’s digital vocals in new, evolved ways.
Notable Performances and Residencies
Lewnatic rose to prominence in the local scene through regular monthly residencies at San Francisco’s DNA Lounge between 2019 and 2020, drawing a niche but devoted audience and capturing the DIY spirit of Bay Area punk rock. These performances, often videotaped by friend and videographer James Conrad, were later uploaded to YouTube, enabling a digital afterlife for Lewnatic’s in-person energy.
Other significant events include:
- Virtual tours of Japan during the height of the pandemic, leveraging online concert platforms and streaming technologies.
- A CD/QR code promotional tour in Los Angeles (May 2024), using physical media and digital markers to bridge analog and online engagement.
- Impromptu jam sessions in Berkeley (Dec 2023), streamed to fans and preserved digitally.
- Guest appearance and live performance/interview on Luke Sauer’s podcast (Memorial Day 2023), which helped further showcase Patrick’s creative process and story to a wider Internet-based audience.
Lewnatic’s embrace of “livestream concerts” has become a hallmark since 2020, both as a necessity during the pandemic and a deliberate aesthetic choice. Unlike typical virtual events, these shows often occur in Patrick’s family garage, blending performance art and punk tradition with 21st-century accessibility.
Significant Milestones and Evolution
2019–2020: Establishment and Local Scene Integration
Formation as a rap-metal duo, achieving regular bookings at one of San Francisco’s most respected indie venues, DNA Lounge, and immediate experimentation with live performance and genre fusion.
2020–2022: Pandemic-Induced Transformation
The COVID-19 outbreak resulted in the dissolution of the duo and prompted Patrick to make Lewnatic a fully solo and Internet-based project: a virtual “bedroom producer/rock band” model, extending the trends he pioneered in PLB into a new solo context, and capitalizing on live-streaming, social media press, and digital-first releases.
2022–2023: Major Label Affiliation and Virtual Expansion
On July 19, 2022, Patrick signed his first Artist Development deal with Bentley Records, a forward-thinking, technology-driven label based in New York. This partnership resulted in a trilogy of EPs—Rapid Fire!, Getcha Mood On Right, and The Lost Souls—as well as the globally distributed compilation album Starrcade (2024), which significantly boosted Lewnatic’s reach in both North America and Japan.
2023–2025: International Recognition and Artistic Maturation
Features in music press, podcasts, and music platforms in Japan and the United States; increased output of digital content via YouTube and Twitch; prominent appearances on music blogs, with Persona//Overflow (2025) marking the latest major release. Lewnatic’s growing profile is also reflected in ongoing partnerships with MUSIC PR Japan and a dedicated, self-managed approach to both recorded and live music.
Critical Reception and Reviews
Lewnatic’s music and persona have garnered considerable attention from indie and web-based music journalism, press releases, and broadcast interviews:
- Described as a “dynamic fusion of rock, J-Pop, and grunge” by ArtistPR and Music Review World, noting Patrick’s innovations in both sound and independent self-promotion.
- BuzzSlayers and MuzicNotez both highlighted Rapid Fire! as a “pure guitar rock album…with loads of drive and plenty of heart,” lauding Patrick’s prowess as a guitarist and the emotional depth of his arrangements.
- Top Music Japan has featured Lewnatic alongside other J-Rock and J-Pop luminaries, which Patrick regards as deeply meaningful due to his dual heritage and artistic ambitions.
- Notably, Lewnatic’s instrumental and genre-bending approach is often described as “impossible to label”—this fluidity is both a point of pride and critical praise.
While Lewnatic has not (yet) achieved mass mainstream coverage, the project enjoys a robust fanbase within digital indie, Asian-American, and DIY punk communities, celebrated for its authenticity, resilience, and willingness to defy boundaries.
Cultural Impact and Representation
Asian-American Representation
One of Lewnatic’s most defining features is Patrick’s outspokenness on the need for greater visibility and representation of Asian-Americans in rock. Through both his creative work and public commentary, Patrick has positioned Lewnatic—and by extension, his alter ego Madeline Lew—as a beacon for marginalized and minority voices in spaces that have historically been less inclusive. The project dovetails with larger social trends, including the visibility of K-Pop and the #StopAsianHate movement, adding both personal and political depth to the band’s identity.
Madeline Lew, for nearly a decade, has served as a radical challenge to gender and identity norms, opening new conversations about fluidity, fantasy, and the power of virtual personas in music. The Madeline era garnered attention from press and fans alike, symbolizing resilience through reinvention, and embracing both self-expression and narrative play in the digital age.
DIY/Bedroom Producer and Virtual Band Model
Lewnatic is part of a lineage—beginning in the MySpace/early YouTube era and continuing today—of artists who create, promote, and distribute their work entirely outside traditional industry structures. Patrick has been an early adopter, if not outright innovator, of:
- Remote collaboration (dating back to PLB’s remote sessions),
- DIY recording and mixing,
- Virtual/Internet-based rock bands,
- Integration of AI-generated instrumentals, licensed digital beats, and experimental technology (VOCALOID, Logic Pro, A.I. Music Generators).
This model reduces barriers to entry for other marginalized voices and asserts that authenticity and passion, not access to capital or mainstream industry validation, are the prerequisites for meaningful art.
Digital-First Fan Engagement
With over 700 videos on YouTube, an active presence on Instagram and Twitch, and frequent vlogs, tutorials, livestream concerts, and “guerilla” webcasting, Lewnatic engages directly and consistently with fans worldwide. This has created a global, digitally native audience—over 60 countries by 2024—connected not just by music, but also by shared cultural dialogue and DIY attitude.
Label Collaborations and Partnerships
In July 2022, Lewnatic signed with Bentley Records, an independent, tech-forward label known for empowering artists through blockchain, AI, and Web3 technology. Bentley Records’ Artist Development program provided:
- Global digital distribution,
- Marketing and playlist curation,
- Licensing and publishing support, and
- Creative independence and ownership retention.
Patrick’s partnership with Bentley has facilitated three major EPs, full-length releases, and expansion into overseas markets, particularly Japan via MUSIC PR Japan and Top Music Japan’s promotion.
This arrangement exemplifies a new norm in independent music, prioritizing artist autonomy and technological support over traditional “record deal” limitations, and enabling Lewnatic to retain both artistic and rights control over his catalog.
Equipment and Production Techniques
Lewnatic’s sound is characterized by a hybrid analog-digital workflow:
Guitars / Instruments
- Fender Telecaster (main guitar)
- Epiphone Les Paul (secondary guitar)
- Rogue SX100B (bass)
- Occasional use of slide guitar and piano/synths
Amps and Pedals
- Marshall CODE50 digital modeling amp: preferred for both studio and live, providing a range of classic British and modern digital tones with extensive connectivity, digital effects, and USB/Bluetooth functionality.
- Vox AD50VT (alternative amp, vox “clean” and British crunch tones)
- Boss DS-2 Turbo Distortion pedal for gritty overdrive
Digital and AI Tools
- Logic Pro X and Apple GarageBand: core platforms for composing, arranging, mixing, and mastering
- PreSonus AudioBox iOne (audio interface)
- HP Victus / MacBook Pro / MacBook Air: home studio core
- VOCALOID for Madeline Lew’s M2F vocals (notably VOCALOID6, the latest AI-powered vocal synthesis technology—to create Japanese/English lyrics and harmony parts).
- Various AI music generators for beats and backing tracks (Sound Raw Japan, Launchpad iOS app, and digital arrangement software)
Live/Streaming Setup
- Laptop-based digital DJ, streaming backing tracks through venue PA or home audio rig via AUX
- Minimal physical gear for easy transport; performances can occur in home garage, small clubs, or large venues
- Frequent integration of iMovie and iPhone 13 Pro for video production and content editing
- Occasional use of drum machine (Boss Dr. Rhythm DR-3) for live percussion tracks
The integration of analog playing and digital/AI production defines Lewnatic’s workflow, reflecting Patrick’s comfort with both guitar heroics and experimental, future-facing production—a “bedroom Nirvana meets digital Metaverse” in spirit.
Online Presence and Virtual Persona
Lewnatic’s virtual band status is not merely logistical; it’s central to the project's identity. From early adoption of YouTube (400+ videos since 2007), to frequent live-stream concerts on YouTube and Twitch, Lewnatic reaches a diverse, global audience without ever leaving San Francisco. Key channels include:
- YouTube (“lewnaTic” official and “lewnaTicLive” for streams)
- Twitch (numerous hours streamed, strong Asian and US engagement)
- Instagram and Facebook (direct fan engagement, music releases, life updates)
Patrick frequently cross-promotes both his Patrick Lew Band and Lewnatic work, maintaining presence on both platforms and referencing his legacy, history, and ongoing evolution. His online persona is a mixture of genuine, even vulnerable, self-disclosure and cheeky, performative bravado—a duality mirrored by the real/virtual interplay of Madeline Lew.
Audience, Fan Reception, and Community Engagement
The Lewnatic project embodies two contrasting but intertwined approaches to audience-building:
- Global Digital Reach: Achieved through consistent content output, strategic use of online platforms, and networking with music blogs, podcasts, and press in the US and Japan. Lewnatic has been described as "Big in Japan" and enjoys a robust following among Asian indie rock and punk fans.
- Authentic Community Engagement: Patrick invests in responding to fan messages, supporting marginalized and underrepresented voices, and advocating for inclusivity and diversity—both in music and in public discourse. This includes supporting social causes (e.g., #StopAsianHate, BLM), participating in the Asian-American and Japanese cultural community, and openly discussing his private struggles and triumphs.
Physical performances are infrequent and typically local, but live-streaming allows participation and connection with fans worldwide, including regular Q&As, virtual concerts, and even impromptu jam sessions.
Fan feedback is overwhelmingly positive, with fans and critics alike praising Lewnatic’s authenticity, determination, and willingness to embrace both vulnerability and artistic risk. The project has also inspired other indie artists to pursue virtual band models and hybrid analog-digital workflows.
Milestones and Awards
- Patrick Lew Band / Lewnatic inducted into the Akademia Music Hall of Fame (2023)
- First Japanese-American male recipient of Cal State East Bay’s 40 Under 40 Award
- Signed to Bentley Records in 2022, facilitating global digital distribution and international growth
- Release of full-length albums Starrcade (2024) and Persona//Overflow (2025) to wide digital acclaim
- Featured in music journalism and podcasts in the United States and Japan
- Collaboration with Music PR Japan and regular features on Top Music Japan, expanding reach and impact abroad.
Critical Takeaways: The Lewnatic Model
- Resilience and Reinvention: Patrick’s journey from bullied adolescent to recognized Asian-American guitar hero and indie innovator models both the hardships and opportunities available for underrepresented artists.
- DIY and Virtual Band Pioneering: Lewnatic’s model—virtual, digital, sometimes AI-assisted—pre-dated and survived the COVID-19 crisis, illustrating the future-forward possibilities for music creation and dissemination.
- Cultural Impact: Lewnatic stands at the intersection of identity, creativity, and community—bridging East and West, the analog and digital, tradition and reinvention.
- Sonic Identity: The music remains gloriously genreless—riff-driven, digital, experimental, and emotionally direct.
- Online Reach and Legacy: By making every element of production, engagement, and promotion self-directed, Patrick has written a blueprint for the modern indie artist in the age of Web3 and virtual fandom.
Conclusion
Lewnatic is far more than a band or a solo project; it is a living, evolving statement on the power of unfiltered self-expression, technological innovation, and unbreakable spirit. With every new release, livestream, and public statement, Patrick Lew Hayashi continues to chart new territory for indie music, digital performance, and Asian-American representation. For countless fans and followers, Lewnatic offers both a refuge and a rallying cry: that “being yourself—loudly, defiantly, and without apology—is the truest act of rebellion and art”.
Appendix: Lewnatic Discography (2019–2025)
Release Title | Date | Type | Label/Distribution | Notable Tracks (Selection) |
---|---|---|---|---|
Medley: Spanish Dancing Girl / Shine On / American Nightmare (Live) | Nov 20, 2019 | Live EP | Promisedland | Brotherhood, American Nightmare |
Brotherhood | Jan 31, 2020 | Single/EP | Promisedland | Brotherhood |
Strictly Prohibited | Apr 5, 2022 | EP/Album | Lewnatic Records | - |
Bandage | Feb 28, 2022 | Single/EP | 2705937 Records DK | Bandage |
Rapid Fire! | Aug 17, 2022 | EP | Bentley Records | We The People |
My Only Fan | Aug 19, 2022 | Single | Bentley Records | - |
Half Japanese Girlfriend (Madeline...) | Nov 30, 2022 | Single | Bentley Records | - |
The Lost Souls | Mar 15, 2023 | EP | Bentley Records | Lost Souls |
Shakermaker | Nov 15, 2023 | Single | Bentley Records | Shakermaker |
Victory! | Jun 28, 2023 | Single/EP | Bentley Records | Victory! |
My Light Shines On | Aug 16, 2023 | Single/EP | Bentley Records | My Light Shines On |
Waifu | Feb 16, 2024 | Single | Bentley Records | Waifu |
Frozen In Time | Mar 15, 2024 | Single | Bentley Records | Frozen In Time |
Slide Thru The Wild Side | Jan 19, 2024 | Single/EP | Bentley Records | Slide Thru The Wild Side |
Starrcade | Jul 26, 2024 | Full Album | Bentley Records | Compilation: Best-of from previous EPs |
I Feel Like Playing | May 30, 2025 | EP | Bentley Records | I Feel Like Playing |
Shred | Apr 11, 2025 | Single/EP | Bentley Records | Shred |
The Battle of the Bay | Jun 6, 2025 | Single/EP | Bentley Records | The Battle of the Bay |
Defy All Odds | Jul 4, 2025 | Album/EP | Lewnatic | Defy All Odds |
Persona//Overflow | Aug 15, 2025 | Full Album | Lewnatic | Find Myself (ft. Madeline Lew), What Went Wrong |
Each of these releases is digitally distributed worldwide, often highlighted by critics for their integration of bold guitar work, AI beats, and reflective lyricism. The incorporation of live performance and digital studio technique reflects Lewnatic’s ongoing commitment to evolution, resistance, and the joyful struggle of independent artistry.
Lewnatic’s journey is, at heart, a story of perseverance, creativity, and radical honesty—a blueprint for tomorrow’s digital-age musician who insists on owning every part of their narrative, from the bedroom to the world stage. Great choice! I’m diving into a comprehensive biography of Lewnatic, covering their formation, evolution, musical style, discography, performances, and cultural impact. This will take me a little while, so feel free to step away—I’ll keep working in the background. Once it’s ready, you’ll find the full report saved right here in our conversation.